--- Log opened Tue Aug 05 23:37:06 2008
23:37 -!- mycroftiv [n=hagbard@h216-170-234-99.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #plan9chan
23:37 -!- mode/#plan9chan [+o mycroftiv] by cr9
23:38 <@mycroftiv> hey again...decided to bail out of plan 9 irc and switch to host OS irc
23:38 <@mycroftiv> for some reason my openssh/scp isnt talking correctly to my webserver...wait maybe i figured it out...
23:39 < Kenya> :O
23:41 <@mycroftiv> bah, was hoping switching terminal to vt emulation would do the trick
23:41 <@mycroftiv> is there a way of transferring a file via an ssh session without using scp?
23:42 <@mycroftiv> lmao...i dont even need to, the code is already there haha
23:42 <@mycroftiv> forgot i uploaded it there earlier, let me move it to a directory you can use
23:43 < Kenya> close
23:43 -!- Kenya [n=asmoday@c-67-171-131-214.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"]
23:44 < drbawb> shoot - what would the IP addy QEMU uses to talk to the host be by default - so I can get some SSHMAGIC going?
23:44 -!- Kenya [n=asmoday@c-67-171-131-214.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #plan9chan
23:47 <@cr9> oh, hey, x11 works on p9... that's cool
23:48 <@mycroftiv> im not sure drbawb, i think maybe the default qemu networking setup prevents guest-host communication, but you can change the networking options to get it to work -- in which case you might need to setup p9 networking differently, not sure
23:48 <@mycroftiv> figuring out the details of vm networking is something we need to do, thats not p9 specific, just a general thing we need to get nailed down
23:49 < drbawb> shoot - is there an ssh 2.x available for Plan9? (That or ssh 1.x in the Ubuntu repos?)
23:49 <@mycroftiv> im currently hassling with small technical issues that are making this source code availability thing slightly silly
23:49 <@mycroftiv> brbawb: yes there is current openssh ported
23:49 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: and yeah the default ssh supplied with the distro is unusable, nothing will talk to it i dont think
23:50 <@mycroftiv> drbawb:  but the openssh port from contrib works just fine im using it now
23:50 < drbawb> I guess that means I gotta wait for 9fs sources to be back up
23:52 <@cr9> tomorrow is only a day away, as that wretched orphan so liked to remind us
23:55 <@mycroftiv> there is some insanely silly thing in abaco where it checks for a random file called 'passwd.6.font' and i need to recreate that file because it was missing from the original source i downloaded, i had to make it by hand, and the tab character isnt working right inside vt>ssh so i gotta upload this 6-byte file from a different location hehe
23:56 <@cr9> magnetized needle and a steady hand, i'm sure
23:59 -!- Craiginator [n=craigtre@pool-141-155-27-3.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #plan9chan
23:59 < Craiginator> ok
23:59 < Craiginator> i could do a simple toutorial for Q
23:59 < Craiginator> should i make it an image toutorial
23:59 <@mycroftiv> ok here goes, who wants to get abaco going in their plan 9 install? i uploaded the source code, i think you can download and install it with the following commands:
--- Day changed Wed Aug 06 2008
00:00 <@mycroftiv> cd /usr/glenda/tmp
00:00 <@mycroftiv> hget http://www.sphericalharmony.com/plan9/abaco.tar.gz >abaco.tar.gz
00:00 <@mycroftiv> tar xzf abaco.tar.gz
00:00 <@mycroftiv> cd abaco
00:00 <@mycroftiv> mk
00:01 <@mycroftiv> cp passwd.6.font /lib/font/bit/lucidasans/
00:01 <@mycroftiv> mk install
00:01 <@mycroftiv> then to actually run it, you need to do:
00:01 <@mycroftiv> webcookies
00:01 <@mycroftiv> webfs
00:01 <@mycroftiv> abaco
00:01 < Kenya> I'll give it a try
00:02 <@mycroftiv> let me know if anything doesnt work plz
00:03 < Craiginator> hey
00:03 <@mycroftiv> whats up?
00:04 < Craiginator> should i install fossil or fossil+venti
00:04 <@mycroftiv> fossil only
00:04 <@mycroftiv> venti is for networked data backup dump basically
00:04 <@mycroftiv> we will have it going once the /g/rid is up but you dont need it for your local install
00:05 < Craiginator> now if i was to intall
00:05 < Craiginator> where would it try to make the partition
00:05 <@mycroftiv> you are installing in a virtual machine right?
00:05 < Craiginator> yeah on Q
00:05 -!- StarKruzr [n=jtd@adsl-70-224-38-144.dsl.sbndin.ameritech.net] has joined #plan9chan
00:05 < Craiginator> so what would happen
00:05 <@mycroftiv> it should be using a hard drive image file so its creating the partition 'inside' that file
00:05 < StarKruzr> 'sup ni/g/z
00:06 <@mycroftiv> the plan 9 invasion has begun, today /g/, tomorrow the web
00:06 < Craiginator> ok so inside the .iso
00:06 < Craiginator> ?
00:06 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: no, you should create a hard drive image file that is separate from the cd rom .iso
00:07 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: not too sure about the q interface, it might provide a gui/menu tool to create your image
00:07 <@cr9> abaco: openfont: bad height or ascent in font file
00:07 <@cr9> abaco 279: suicide: sys: trap: fault read addr 0x0 pc=0x000189d1
00:07 <@cr9> it wouldn't have killed itself if it knew how much i loved it
00:07 < StarKruzr> how's that for an awesome error message
00:08 <@mycroftiv> cr9: hum i wonder if i got the wrong bytes in that stupid passwd.6.font file
00:08 <@mycroftiv> abaco: or is that your local abaco, not the one i just uploaded?
00:08 <@cr9> that's the uploaded one
00:08 <@cr9> we can always wait a few days, plan9 isn't running anywhere, and it'll be up thurs.
00:09 < Craiginator> wait would a .dmg work
00:09 < Craiginator> ?
00:09 <@mycroftiv> yeah and that isnt the best version of abaco anyway, its code i got before i learned how to use 9fs sources for real
00:09 < Craiginator> ??
00:09 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: im not sure what you are asking, when you use qemu, it uses a special file that it creates to represent the virtual machines hard drive
00:09 <@cr9> then that's cool, we'll wait... really i'm quite happy that it networks and i can check mail on it, even if it's through raw POP data
00:10 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: it is called a 'qcow' file and it is special to qemu -- qemu should have a tool for creating the file you use as a hard drive
00:10 < Craiginator> ill look for that on Q's wiki
00:10 < Craiginator> thanks
00:10 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: yes any virtual machine (plan 9 or not) needs to use a file to represent the hard drive
00:11 < Craiginator> ok cool
00:11 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: just like it uses the .iso file to represent the cdrom
00:11 < Craiginator> kk cool
00:11 < StarKruzr> is kqemu useful for p9?
00:11 <@mycroftiv> starkruzr: yes if you can get it installed, its not crucial though
00:11 <@cr9> for fast installs i think. i didn't bother, q6600 brute forced its way through the slowdown
00:11 < StarKruzr> okay.
00:11 < drbawb> darn
00:12 < drbawb> got ssh running in plan9 but it doesn't understand a linux terminal - aka no ircs :'(
00:12 < StarKruzr> hm
00:12 < StarKruzr> think I should probably use an altnick for this channel
00:12 < drbawb> but at least i can browse my local harddrive from plan9 lulz!
00:13 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: ok two things
00:13 <@cr9> drbawb: yeah it's pretty badly posix-compliant, it's not really that great out of the box
00:13 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: first off did you start your ssh after doing vt?
00:13 < drbawb> no i didn't
00:13 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: before you use ssh you should do 'vt' in your rio/rc shell, it switches to a vt-100 emulation mode
00:13 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: so with vt-100 emulation a lot more stuff should work, although it is still pretty flaky in my experience
00:13 < drbawb> I just ran ssh (and it's not openssh, i have my daemon serving up protocol 1)
00:14 < Kenya> abaco commited suicide for me too
00:14 <@cr9> drbawb: see this is why i like mycroft, he's the brains, i'm the... guy who made the anonib
00:14 < drbawb> woah
00:14 <@mycroftiv> sorry guys, I think I screwed up making the passwd.6.font file
00:14 < drbawb> irssi on plan9!
00:14 <@cr9> yeah the abaco install is flawed, we'll wait until thursday for sourcefs to be back up
00:14 -!- StarKruzr is now known as Jack
00:14 < drbawb> it's really buggy and keeps redrawing
00:14 < drbawb> but holy crap - thanks for the vt tip
00:14 < drbawb> SCREENCAP FOR EPIC LULZ IN PLAN9 THREAD :P!
00:14 -!- Jack is now known as echojack
00:14 < echojack> there
00:14 < Craiginator> ok cool i think i found it in Q
00:14 <@mycroftiv> yeah we gotta post lots of plan 9 screenshots, helps people understand whats going on
00:15 < Craiginator> how much space would you reccomend for the .qcow
00:15 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: they recommend 2gigs and thats fine -- and it doesnt actually use that much
00:15 < Craiginator> yeah i read 2gigs shows up as kb on the drive
00:15 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: the hard drive image files qemu makes 'expand' as they are filled with data, so 2g just sets the max and defines the drive geomertry the VM sees
00:17 < Craiginator> ok i think i got it
00:17 <@mycroftiv> arg wth, i just checked on the abaco stuff I uploaded and the passwd.6.font file is totally screwed, i think i can fix it...
00:17 <@mycroftiv> no wonder it didnt work
00:18 <@mycroftiv> totally bizarre, working with too many files, must have just saved/uploaded the wrong thing
00:18 <@cr9> mycroftiv: you do realize we'll all owe you our souls by the time we all get this working right
00:19 < drbawb> alright i'm going back to ubuntu for irc lol
00:19 <@mycroftiv> well, im hoping some of the people with some more knowledge than me get involved -- if i was smarter at understanding man pages, wed have the /9/grid up by now, because sharing files is really transparent
00:21 <@mycroftiv> OK!
00:22 <@mycroftiv> new, fixed version of abaco available, delete the old one and try again -- assuming doing the build with the wrong version didnt screw stuff up that rebuilding wont fix , this will work
00:22 <@mycroftiv> maybe delete the files it installed if you check the makefile or something, i dunno, tbh im no compilan expert
00:22 <@cr9> thankee kidnly
00:22 <@mycroftiv> but i understand exactly what i did...i had a bad version of the passwd file and a good version, and copied the wrong one in before i made the tarball, sorry for carelessness
00:24 <@mycroftiv> by the way did you guys archive a copy of your initial clean install? should DEFINITELY do that before working with it much
00:24 <@cr9> saved and everything
00:24 <@mycroftiv> its only a few hundred MB hard drive image file after the install
00:25 <@mycroftiv> i also like working with my main machine with the -snapshot flag set on qemu launch if im gonna be 'experimenting'
00:25 <@mycroftiv> anyone tried teh new abaco version? i think it oughta work
00:27 < echojack> anyone know if this is sort of plug-and-play for p9 on QEMU?  http://www.alterego7.com/2008/02/running-windows-xp-pro-on-ubuntu-with.html
00:27 < Craiginator> ok my croft
00:28 <@mycroftiv> echojack: you using linux as host os?
00:28 -!- Kenya [n=asmoday@c-67-171-131-214.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #plan9chan []
00:28 <@mycroftiv> if so very yes
00:28 <@mycroftiv> if you check the archived threads at sphericalharmony there is a modified walkthrough you can use
00:29 < echojack> echojack: yes
00:29 -!- Kenya [n=asmoday@c-67-171-131-214.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #plan9chan
00:29 < echojack> er, mycroftiv: yes
00:29 <@mycroftiv> echojack: one sec lemme give you the link
00:29 < Kenya> abaco works now
00:29 < Kenya> Awesme
00:29 < Kenya> awesome even.
00:29 <@cr9> excellent, works like a charm
00:29 <@mycroftiv> http://sphericalharmony.com/plan9/plan9stuff/lastoneiguess.html
00:30 <@mycroftiv> echojack: i have a 'plan 9 on qemu in ubuntu' walkthrough there that should work fine -- if kqemu doesnt build/install for you, thats np, everything works fine without it
00:30 < Craiginator> ok where do i set the download for the distro archive
00:30 < Craiginator> ?
00:30 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: unfortunately bell labs repository is down
00:31 < HK48> Q or VM fusion?
00:31 < Craiginator> Q
00:31 < HK48> rightso
00:31 <@mycroftiv> anyone need tips on using abaco? heh
00:31 < HK48> I got both
00:31 < Craiginator> so should i wait to install until its back up?
00:31 < Kenya> Q
00:31 <@mycroftiv> craiginator: im talking about the plan 9 extra software repository
00:31 < Kenya> Definetly Q
00:31 < Kenya> Vmware Fusion won't install properly.
00:32 < echojack> mycroftiv: is your nick a Heinlein reference?
00:32 <@mycroftiv> HK48: we have determined that qemu based emulation is the correct solution on ALL platforms, cr9 maybe change the front page sticky so it says that clearly?
00:32 <@mycroftiv> echojack: absolutely!
00:32 < echojack> awesome.
00:32 <@cr9> yes, definitely
00:33 -!- Craiginator [n=craigtre@pool-141-155-27-3.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:33 < HK48> gran I'll have a go at it later and let you know
00:33 <@mycroftiv> i need to post that 'how to fetch my abaco copy' thing on the thread
00:33 < HK48> grand*
00:33 <@mycroftiv> k good luck, you know about the anonib board and the sphericalharmony archives right? they will continue to be updated
00:34 < echojack> that walkthrough is good shit, mycroftiv
00:34 < echojack> thanks for that
00:34 < echojack> next we need another for joining a p9 node to the *chan 9grid
00:35 <@cr9> after we figure out how to make the grid in the first place... yeah, that's on the networking roadmap
00:35 <@mycroftiv> im so aggravated because setting up p9 filesharing is seriously about 3 simple commands
00:35 < Kenya> So does Plan 9 have any support for more than 8bit color?
00:35 < Kenya> just curious.
00:35 <@mycroftiv> kenya: sure just put x24 as the last bit of aux/vga command
00:35 < echojack> I saw someone set it to 24bit
00:35 < echojack> yeah
00:35 < HK48> yeah I know about the anonib and that
00:36 <@mycroftiv> aux/vga -m vesa -l 1024x768x24
00:36 < Kenya> Sweet
00:36 <@mycroftiv> i use 8 bit to save memory
00:36 < HK48> how does the grid work?
00:36 <@mycroftiv> however we want :p
00:36 <@mycroftiv> basically, plan 9 machines can provide any service to anything they can talk to
00:36 < drbawb> mycroftiv - what is one of the commands? I'll see if I can make heads/tails of the manpage
00:37 <@mycroftiv> man import man exportfs man listen man bind man srv
00:37 <@mycroftiv> that gives you PLENTY to get started with
00:37 < HK48> :) are we linked to all plan9 machines?
00:37 <@mycroftiv> also, let me direct you to some reference documentation
00:37 <@mycroftiv> HK48: we will be
00:37 <@mycroftiv> and one sec, i really wanna get the 'how-to add abaco' thing posted on /g/
00:38 < HK48> right
00:38 < echojack> so
00:38 < drbawb> ok well firstly, it doesn't look like you call exportfs directly
00:38 < echojack> if all these machines can appear as one
00:38 < drbawb> you have to use the cpu command apparently
00:38 < echojack> who does the user and privilege management?
00:40 <@mycroftiv> everyone does, everyone chooses what they want to export and what they want to import and who can access it
00:41 <@mycroftiv> thats why plan9 is so interesting, its a distributed OS and there is no single central authority, the machines link up and know how to provide access and services just based on how the namespaces are structured
00:42 < drbawb> From what I can tell, the CPU command is what you're going to use to login to a "Plan9 server"
00:42 < echojack> ok
00:43 < drbawb> All cpu would do though is start rc (terminal shell?) on the remote machine and display it on your machine
00:43 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: no, im talking about just very simple sharing of directories between two machines right now
00:43 <@mycroftiv> not the full gridded cpu setup
00:43 < drbawb> so it's kind of a glorified ssh - but I'm assuming that it would also link namespaces
00:43 <@mycroftiv> i just want to know how to let machine A and machine B share a directory of files over the network, its really really easy to get going
00:43 <@mycroftiv> i mean, when you type
00:43 <@mycroftiv> 9fs sources
00:44 <@mycroftiv> you automatically connect to the bell repository and mount it under /n/sources -- and their config to let you do that isnt hard
00:44 < echojack> well this is retarded
00:44 < echojack> how big was your p9 ISO when you downloaded it?
00:44 <@mycroftiv> 80mb iso, expands to 240mb i think
00:44 < Kenya> 80.1
00:45 <@mycroftiv> i know someone setup a random mirror of the iso for faster download speeds
00:45 < Kenya> I could rapidshit it, if that was wanted
00:45 <@mycroftiv> that was in the thread last night, its probably still up, are you getting nonexistent transfer speed form the official repo?
00:45 <@cr9> fshalting and sleeping, i'm leaving my machine on for channel purposes. mycroftiv, you're a prince among princes among men
00:45 <@cr9> good work and good night, everyone
00:45 <@mycroftiv> doing my best, thanks cr9
00:45 < Kenya> 'night cr9
00:45 < echojack> ciao cr9
00:46 < drbawb> adios cr9
00:46 < drbawb> and let it be on the record that Linux makes manpages a piece of cake compared to Plan9 ;p
00:46 <@mycroftiv> I KNOW ARGGGGGHHH
00:47 <@mycroftiv> plan 9 is INCREDIBLY well documented BUT
00:47 <@mycroftiv> all the documentation is written for post-graduate OS researchers and designers and is just overly thorough
00:47 <@mycroftiv> look at the end of man import for some examples
00:47 < echojack> hurray for X forwarding
00:47 < drbawb> oh fudge - aren't we gonna need some serious port forwarding to get Plan9 working?
00:48 -!- derpaderp [n=user@72-28-185-015-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net] has quit [" Alt-F4"]
00:48 < drbawb> I mean most of us are behind NAT's running virtual machines
00:48 <@mycroftiv> yes we will definitely need to port forward to virtual machines
00:48 <@mycroftiv> that is absolutely correct
00:48 <@mycroftiv> dealing with router/firewall host os networking config is probably going to be one of the biggest hassles because everyone is gonna have slightly different setups and issues
00:48 <@mycroftiv> we could REALLY use a CCNA to help us with that, because thats not even anything to do with plan 9, its just standard networking
00:48 < drbawb> ok theres an argument that says -n nsfile , described as "Serves the namespace described by nsfile"
00:48 <@mycroftiv> but networking is always a bitch
00:49 < drbawb> My question is, how do you describe a namespace in a file?
00:49 <@mycroftiv> thats what FID is for I think
00:49 <@mycroftiv> but look at this:
00:49 <@mycroftiv> this is how simple it is:
00:49 <@mycroftiv> import -a kremvax /net.alt
00:49 <@mycroftiv> telnet /net.alt/tcp!ucbvax
00:50 <@mycroftiv> thats how you would mount an external telnet service hosted on another machine to make it available locally
00:50 <@mycroftiv> and that is FAR more complicated than what we want to do to share files!
00:50 < echojack> is anyone else having weird keyboard issues when they start the VM and it prompts you to install or run, etc?
00:50 <@mycroftiv> no, describe?
00:50 < echojack> I hope I can take a screen
00:50 < echojack> pressing enter produced a j
00:50 < echojack> pressing 1 produced an e
00:51 < echojack> let's try this again
00:51 <@mycroftiv> whoa, you must have some kind of keymapping in your host os thats confusing things? thats all wrong
00:51 < echojack> host OS is Linux but that's a headless box.
00:51 <@mycroftiv> or locales or character sets or something? im not too up on UTF-8 vs everything else
00:51 < echojack> I'm doing X forwarding to my MBP
00:52 <@mycroftiv> echojack: it sounds like your x forwarding is set to the wrong keymap
00:52 < echojack> yeah, 1 produces an e
00:52 <@mycroftiv> echojack: that oughta be configurable in your x configuration stuff
00:52 <@mycroftiv> echojack: pretty sure tahts an X forward > other machine issue, not the VM or p9
00:52 < echojack> ugh, shit
00:52 < echojack> maybe if I run it from inside xterm instead of Terminal
01:01 <@mycroftiv> uploading some more software to sphericalharmony.com
01:02 <@mycroftiv> wow ftpfs is so awesome!
01:02 < drbawb> well - I can't really think straight at 1:02 am - but I think I have some ideas to try on exportfs
01:02 < drbawb> thing is, it requires two computers obviously (3 if we want a separate auth serv) - so mycroft, wanna work on port forwarding the proper sh*t tomorrow?
01:02 < drbawb> also is there a ping tool for plan9?
01:03 <@mycroftiv> yeah look in /bin/ip
01:04 < drbawb> sweet - this namespace doesn't cease to amaze
01:05 <@mycroftiv> its just unbelievable, try looking /srv -- it shows all the services running
01:05 < drbawb> ... it's kind of funny how something being so incredibly organized is confusing ;-)
01:05 <@mycroftiv> yeah...
01:05 <@mycroftiv> it takes something totaly different as fundamental
01:05 -!- now [n=chatzill@host-70-45-54-147.onelinkpr.net] has joined #plan9chan
01:05 < drbawb> w00t 10 services! Beat that XP and Vista ;p
01:05 <@mycroftiv> the namespace is fundamental - the actual filesystem and hardware is secondary, which is INCREDIBLY confusing
01:06 <@mycroftiv> ok links.tgz paint.tgz and pacman.tgz have all been uploaded
01:06 <@mycroftiv> fetch with:
01:06 < now> I have a plan
01:06 <@mycroftiv> hget http://www.sphericalharmony.com/plan9/FOO.tgz >foo.tgz
01:06 <@mycroftiv> while inside your /usr/glenda/tmp directory
01:06 < now> but I still don't have plan 9
01:06 <@mycroftiv> then just tar xzf FOO and cd FOO and mk install
01:07 < drbawb> hmm - i'm gonna try something daring
01:07 <@mycroftiv> note however that not everything installs to your default path
01:07 < drbawb> ssh to my IRC session
01:07 < drbawb> select the command you just pasted
01:07 < drbawb> and run it - and see if it'll open in a terminal :p
01:07 < drbawb> doubtful since it'll already be running an ssh session though
01:07 <@mycroftiv> links takes awhile to build btw
01:08 <@mycroftiv> and depending on how your rio is set you will need to manually scroll the window down while it is building, or it will pause and wait for you
01:08 <@mycroftiv> there is a feature enabled by default which pauses execution of processes until the window is focused on their output point
01:08 <@mycroftiv> you can toggle that behavior if you want, but its very confusing if you dont know
01:08 <@mycroftiv> "WHY IS THIS COMPILE TAKING FOREVER" -- because the output scrolled to the end of the screen and the OS decided to pause the process for you -- like i said, you can toggle that behavior
01:09 <@mycroftiv> by the way 'pacman' is really just a screensaver/performance tester, its non interactive
01:09 <@mycroftiv> but fun :p
01:09 < Kenya> how do you toggle that?
--- Log opened Wed Aug 06 01:11:15 2008
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01:11 <@mycroftiv> i think you can do it graphically
01:11 <@mycroftiv> i think you can do it graphically
01:11 < now> alt+tab?
01:11 < now> alt+tab?
01:11 < drbawb> hget http://www.sphericalharmony.com/plan9/FOO.tgz >foo.tgz
01:11 < drbawb> hget http://www.sphericalharmony.com/plan9/FOO.tgz >foo.tgz
01:11 <@mycroftiv> with the scroll vs no-scroll option available by holding down button 3
01:11 <@mycroftiv> with the scroll vs no-scroll option available by holding down button 3
01:11 < drbawb_onplan9> apparently I can't highlight inside a vt/ssh session
01:11 < drbawb_onplan9> apparently I can't highlight inside a vt/ssh session
01:12 <@mycroftiv> probably not
01:12 <@mycroftiv> probably not
01:12 < Kenya> Ah, nice.
01:12 < Kenya> Ah, nice.
01:12 <@mycroftiv> using vt means you lose access to the rio/rc specific features
01:12 <@mycroftiv> using vt means you lose access to the rio/rc specific features
01:12 < drbawb_onplan9> ahh
01:12 < drbawb_onplan9> ahh
01:12 < drbawb_onplan9> well at least now I have it in a window I can actually see so I can retype the command ;p
01:12 < drbawb_onplan9> well at least now I have it in a window I can actually see so I can retype the command ;p
01:12 < Kenya> Also, how do you save glenda's session so the same windows stay open next time you log in
01:12 < Kenya> Also, how do you save glenda's session so the same windows stay open next time you log in
01:12 < Kenya> I know it's possible, but I forgot where I read how to do it
01:12 < Kenya> I know it's possible, but I forgot where I read how to do it
01:13 < now> what?
01:13 < now> what?
01:13 <@mycroftiv> kenya: well, you could add stuff to the /usr/glenda/lib section, thats what defines all that
01:13 <@mycroftiv> kenya: well, you could add stuff to the /usr/glenda/lib section, thats what defines all that
01:14 < Kenya> Ah, I see
01:14 < Kenya> Ah, I see
01:14 <@mycroftiv> i dont fully understand whats going on in all those files, but thats cleary what they do
01:14 <@mycroftiv> i dont fully understand whats going on in all those files, but thats cleary what they do
01:14 -!- mycroftab [n=glenda@h69-129-202-66.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #plan9chan
01:14 -!- mycroftab [n=glenda@h69-129-202-66.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #plan9chan
01:15 < mycroftab> my alternate identy joins, from a plan9 running on a different box!
01:15 < mycroftab> my alternate identy joins, from a plan9 running on a different box!
01:15 <@mycroftiv> nice, i see that my name is glenda :)
01:15 <@mycroftiv> nice, i see that my name is glenda :)
01:16 < drbawb> i'm off to sleep and what have you - cyall tomorrow [well... technically later today (for me)]
01:16 < drbawb> i'm off to sleep and what have you - cyall tomorrow [well... technically later today (for me)]
--- Log closed Wed Aug 06 01:16:08 2008
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01:16 < now> >:(
01:16 < mycroftab> whats up
01:17 < now> there's still 5 minutes untill the iso.br2 finishes downloading
01:17 < now> *bz2
01:17 < mycroftab> whats your host os? got your version of qemu set up/
01:18 < now> vista. not yet
01:19 < mycroftab> there's some decent docs weve written for qemu on windows, let us know if you need some help, its a bit tricky to work with
01:20 < now> yeah I'm on it. thanks though.
--- Log closed Wed Aug 06 01:20:45 2008
--- Log opened Wed Aug 06 11:14:19 2008
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11:14 <@mycroftiv> wb drbawb
11:14 < drbawb> 'ello
11:14 <@mycroftiv> alvin: ok can you launch all your other software? try just opening a bunch of terminals and catting files and stuff
11:15 < drbawb> lol - you guys seen the thread about plan9 having compiz
11:15 <@mycroftiv> alvin: see if there is some sort of general crisis or if its just affecting links
11:15 <@mycroftiv> drbawb: (everyone looks innocent)
11:15 < Alvin^> I've not noticed anything out of the ordinary
11:15 <@mycroftiv> alvin: what about acme? did it quit ok this time?
11:16 < Alvin^> when I said acme rendered it useless I meant that it was pretty empty without acme
11:16 < Alvin^> nothing broke
11:16 <@mycroftiv> alvin: oh try using acme to launch the pdf/ps viewer - lots of them in /sys/doc
11:16 <@mycroftiv> right click on a pdf or ps file to auto plumb and launch it
11:17 < Alvin^> I did
11:17 < Alvin^> worked fine
11:17 <@mycroftiv> huh i wonder why links is messed up for you
11:17 <@mycroftiv> tried abaco build yet?
11:18 < Alvin^> going to now
11:18 <@mycroftiv> tcp/ip does autochecksum on packets to avoid corruption? i could run a md5sum of the links.tgz to make sure yours didnt get corrupted in download somehow
11:21 < Alvin^> if it did I am confident the compile would have failed
11:21 <@mycroftiv> yeah...
11:22 < Alvin^> ok, abaco errors too
11:22 < Alvin^> but more verbosely
11:22 < Alvin^> it says permission denied on /dev/draw/new
11:23 <@mycroftiv> SU: #CHMOD 666 /dev/draw/new
11:23 <@mycroftiv> lol no su in plan9 though
11:23 < Alvin^> hrm?
11:23 <@mycroftiv> i dont think
11:24 <@mycroftiv> that still indicates something weird is going on
11:24 < Alvin^> so how do I go about doing that?
11:24 <@mycroftiv> well, i think that has to be a symptom of some kind of misconfig somewhere right?
11:24 < Alvin^> I dunno
11:24 <@mycroftiv> what changes have you made from the default install? setting up networking exactly how?
11:24 < Alvin^> ip/ipconfig
11:24 < Alvin^> ndb/dns -r
11:24 < Alvin^> that's it
11:25 < Alvin^> all under glenda
11:25 <@mycroftiv> aha...i think i have a glimmer
11:25 <@mycroftiv> its faint but possible
11:25 <@mycroftiv> thats in where, /usr/lib/glenda/profile?
11:26 < Alvin^> /usr/lib does not exist
11:26 <@mycroftiv> i mean /usr/glenda/lib/profile
11:26 <@mycroftiv> im just asking where those networking ommands are saved
11:26 < Alvin^> oh right
11:26 <@mycroftiv> or are you issuing them manually each boot?
11:27 < Alvin^> manually
11:27 <@mycroftiv> aha
11:27 < Alvin^> haven't gotten around to automating it yet
11:27 <@mycroftiv> ok i think that somehow you arent getting network services fully setup
11:28 <@mycroftiv> heres what i would do
11:28 <@mycroftiv> if you are using that, then you should switch to using the provided script in /rc/bin/termrc
11:28 <@mycroftiv> you just need to uncomment two lines in it
11:28 < Alvin^> ok then
11:28 <@mycroftiv> you can use acme for this incredibly easily
11:28 <@mycroftiv> open acme, type /rc/bin/termrc on a new line
11:28 <@mycroftiv> then use the arrow key to scroll down the section about DHCP
11:29 <@mycroftiv> err, you gotta right click on the /rc/bin/termrc line of course
11:29 <@mycroftiv> but then scroll down to the section about DHCP and there are two # to remove
11:29 <@mycroftiv> from the lines of code that issue those commands with an IF test preceeding
11:29 <@mycroftiv> found it?
11:30 <@mycroftiv> two lines of shell code to uncomment just by deleting the #, then just click on 'put' in the bar above the window to save the file
11:30 < Alvin^> oh hey
11:30 < Alvin^> weird stuff is happening
11:30 < Alvin^> in an error box, I get
11:30 < Alvin^> mntgen: postfd slashn: '/srv/slashn.srv' file already exists
11:30 < Alvin^> when I shift+right click the filename
11:31 <@mycroftiv> oooooh not shift+right click
11:31 <@mycroftiv> that EXECUTES THE FILE!@
11:31 <@mycroftiv> not views it
11:31 <@mycroftiv> right click to just view...
11:31 <@mycroftiv> you tried to relaunch your entire init script
11:31 < Alvin^> bugger, ok
11:31 <@mycroftiv> i would fshalt maybe
11:31 <@mycroftiv> you may have made your system unstable that way
11:31 <@mycroftiv> because a lot of shit probably fired off
11:32 <@mycroftiv> not all of it errored, and the shit that fired off is stuff you may not want to run twice on the same running system
11:32 <@mycroftiv> no clue what happens if you rerun the init scripts on a running machine, maybe it all erorrs out harmlessly
11:32 <@mycroftiv> or is inherently harmless
11:32 <@mycroftiv> but in acme you have to watch out for that middle click (shift right click) command execution
11:33 <@mycroftiv> if rm -rf *.* was in a command active area, youd nuke your system with a single misclick
11:33 <@mycroftiv> well, to whatever extent glenda user has permisison to do so, but glenda seems to have full permissions
11:35 -!- sqweek [n=sqweek@203-59-209-245.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #plan9chan
11:35 <@mycroftiv> hey there
11:35 -!- uriel [n=uriel@h677044.serverkompetenz.net] has joined #plan9chan
11:35 < sqweek> sup
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11:35 < sqweek> why aren't you in #9fans?
11:36 < uriel> #9fans?
11:36 < sqweek> err, #plan9
11:36 < uriel> haha
11:36  * sqweek kicks self
11:36 < uriel> what is this channel about
11:36 < uriel> ?
11:37 -!- izaki [n=lbivens@189.157.8.139] has joined #plan9chan
11:37 <@mycroftiv> learning to use plan 9!!!
11:38 <@mycroftiv> we have been posting hundreds of posts a day trying to teach each other to install it in qemu
11:38 < izaki> How can I put icons on plan 9 desktop?
11:38 <@mycroftiv> ...
11:38 < izaki> I've been trying to drag the faces to the desktop but I can't...
11:39 < izaki> And... Is there any file explorer?
11:39 < Alvin^> acme basically
11:39 < Alvin^> mycroftiv: so I did that thing
11:39 < Alvin^> what do you suggest next?
11:39 < izaki> Can I put shotcuts to acme?
11:39 <@mycroftiv> OK everyone: we are officially welcomed to the #plan9 channel we should move
11:39 <@mycroftiv> alvin: ok you removed those comments and 'put' the file?
11:40 < Alvin^> yeah
11:40 <@mycroftiv> fshalt and reboot and see if your networking comes up and hopefully stuff will work better
11:40 < drbawb> *moves*
11:40 <@mycroftiv> because i dont think you were issuing quite enough commands
11:40 < Alvin^> hm
11:41 < Alvin^> is it normal for fshalt to spit out nonexistant file notices?
11:41 <@mycroftiv> no
11:42 <@mycroftiv> alvin have you tested your hardware for stability? or checked on drivers or anything?
11:42 < Alvin^> honestly no
11:42 -!- KenyaSleep [n=asmoday@c-67-171-131-214.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:42 < Alvin^> guess I will inquire in #plan9
11:42 < Alvin^> but first, food
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11:57 <@mycroftiv> hey folks
11:57 <@mycroftiv> come to #plan9 they want us there
11:59 < fwiffo> ok
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12:08 < now> hellow
12:08 < now> I finally got it working on vista
12:08 <@mycroftiv> hey there
12:08 <@mycroftiv> congratulations!
12:09 <@mycroftiv> come join #plan9
12:09 <@mycroftiv> they want us in there
12:09 < now> the problem was 0.9.1
12:09 <@mycroftiv> ok we need to make sure that info is publicized
12:09 -!- HK48 [n=HK48@89.234.101.112] has joined #plan9chan
12:09 < HK48> so...
12:10 < now> what's the diff between plan9chan & plan9?
12:10 < HK48> idk
12:10 < HK48> my bff gill
12:10 < HK48> jill
12:11 <@mycroftiv> plan9 is the real channel
12:11 -!- now is now known as now|AFK
12:11 <@mycroftiv> plan9chan is the one the /g/ people made because we were too scared of the main channel
12:11 <@mycroftiv> come to #plan9 HK48
12:16 < fwiffo> oh boy, is this some 4chan thing?
12:19 < izaki> I am alergic to 4chan.
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12:36 <@mycroftiv> fwiffo: this is a bunch of people from the 4chan technology board, interested in learning new stuff and creating a shared resources system online -- we have nothing to do with any random idiocies perpetrated by some of the 50 million people who use 4chans other boards
12:40 < fwiffo> do you learn new stuff in /g/?
12:41 <@mycroftiv> somewhat yes
12:41 <@mycroftiv> to be honest a lot of it is people who are bored and trolling each other by pretending to be stupid
12:41 <@mycroftiv> but a lot of pretty intelligent people there have taken a sudden interest in plan 9
12:42 < fwiffo> yeah, i had the impression that it was mostly trolling.
12:42 <@mycroftiv> that is correct, but this is a group of people who actually want to learn how to do the cool things we know plan 9 can do
12:43 <@mycroftiv> and some of us think that maybe with the dawning of truly ubiquitous networking, the time for grid/mesh/distributed OS has finally arrived
12:43 < fwiffo> that's fine, i hope you enjoy it.
12:43 <@mycroftiv> were generally having a great time so far
12:45 <@mycroftiv> i have about 1200 posts from the past week as people have gradually started downloading and installing, its all archived on my server at http://www.sphericalharmony.com/plan9/plan9stuff
12:47 < fwiffo> interesting
12:48 <@mycroftiv> theres a fair amount of trolling and such mixed in there, but most of it is people PRETENDING to troll as a joke
12:49 < fwiffo> don't worry, plan9 has trolls too
12:50 <@mycroftiv> someone was actually trolling by photoshopping our plan 9 screenshots onto compiz cubes and claiming that compiz was originally developed for plan9 and then ported, i admit i thought it was funny
12:50 < fwiffo> haha
12:51 < drbawb> mycroft - that might not have been shooped actually
12:52 < drbawb> couldn't you run 4 vm's in full screen mode and still spin your cube?
12:52 <@mycroftiv> sure, but the person who shopped it was in here laughing about it, so inside info
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13:43 <@mycroftiv> sleep time, up way too many hours...gonna be seeing glenda in my dreams
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 06 14:15:54 2008
--- Log opened Wed Aug 06 14:16:07 2008
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15:01 < Tacos4Tacos> Client and server implementations of the 9P and 9P2000 distributed resource protocols for Unix-based operating systems. See project home page for up-to-date news and source release information.
15:01 <@mycroftiv> hey tacos
15:01 < Tacos4Tacos> Sup yo.
15:02 <@mycroftiv> yup we can serve 9fs from linux installs
15:02 <@mycroftiv> so many possibilities
15:02 < Tacos4Tacos> I think I'm gonna focus on that.
15:02 <@mycroftiv> btw come join #plan9 we all got recruited for there
15:02 < Tacos4Tacos> wicked.
15:02 <@mycroftiv> yeah weve learned a lot already
15:03 <@mycroftiv> if you have a plan9 up currently, do 'ns' in a terminal
15:04 <@mycroftiv> ns shows your currently construted namespace
15:04 < drbawb> nice
15:04 <@mycroftiv> that command, ns, is like the magic key
15:05 <@mycroftiv> you can also view the namespace as seen by any particular process -- which can in theory be totally different -- by doing ns (pid)
15:05 < drbawb> mycroft - do you have any interest in hosting IRC logs?
15:05 <@mycroftiv> sure
15:05 < drbawb> I'm logging all the stuff from #plan9chan and #plan9 - I figure it'll be useful in case we forget
15:05 <@mycroftiv> nice
15:05 <@mycroftiv> i can absolutely host that
15:06 < drbawb> Alright - you got a temp email I can send these to?
15:07 -!- fwiffo [n=user@unaffiliated/fwiffo] has left #plan9chan ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
15:07 <@mycroftiv> send to plan9grid@sphericalharmony.com
15:07 -!- Tacos4Tacos [n=tacotaco@71.237.217.88] has quit ["[BX] Showering in your clothes shows you're crazy. Showering nude shows your nuts."]